During my walk the other day, I decided to tune in to a podcast episode on Ten Percent Happier. I’m slightly addicted to the app and the podcast in general (no affiliate links here — I just love it). When I saw there was another interview with Lama Rod Owens, I figured it’d be a good one.

Wow. 

You know that moment when you hear something that stops you dead in your tracks? This was me, multiple times, as I listened to the interview titled “ Buddhist Strategies for Suffering Less and Improving Your Meditation” from October 25, 2023.

The first time I stopped? About 10 minutes in, when interviewer Dan Harris asks Lama Rod Owens if that (a story Lama Rod was telling) was why he was “no longer interested in being a good person.”

Yup. Let’s rewind that. Lama Rod, an authorized lama — teacher‌ — ‌of Tibetan Buddhism. A man who also holds a Master of Divinity degree from Harvard. He no longer cares about being good? 

But his reasoning made so much sense.

Lama Rod talked about how “goodness is a process.” And, if it’s truly a process, that means it doesn’t stop. There’s no destination. He pointed out that “When I ‘become a good person’ it’s hard to see the times when I’m not practicing good” (the internal single quotes are mine — it felt like he was speaking in air-quotes). 

And that’s so true. Once you’ve labeled yourself as a good person, it’s hard to see your own mistakes and failings. You’ve been there, right? When you find yourself being called out for something you said or did that was insensitive, rude, or just plain wrong. And your brain triggers the internal “I would never do that; I’m a good person” response.  

But he doesn’t stop there. Lama Rod shares his definition of goodness, which is all about reducing suffering. More specifically, it’s reducing ‌harm and violence to the self and to others.

One of the things I love about the interview is that Lama Rod doesn’t just leave us with his definition. Instead, he dives in to explain that goodness requires us to be tuned into our own needs as well as the needs of others. If all we ever do is prioritize other people’s wants and desires, we are harming ourselves.

That one hit pretty hard. I’m guessing you can recognize what I mean. If you’re anything like me, everyone else always comes first. That’s what we’re taught to do, right? So, in that sense, I haven’t been good to myself for a long time.

Man, Lama Rod, you’re killing me here. But he’s right. He even adds to it by saying, “If I’m not attentive to my needs, I will start reacting to a feeling of depletion and take it out on others I’m supposed to be helping.” Healthy boundaries can be freeing. 

He does add the warning, which I appreciated, that this kind of goodness can cause disappointment for others. Saying no and attending to our own needs can make people uncomfortable. But, we’re not about comfort when we’re doing good. We’re about reducing harm and violence.

Another stop for me was when he was talking about letting go of shame. The shame we have when we stop to take care of ourselves. The feeling like there are other things I should be doing, ought to be doing. We’re really just trying to be perfect — which, of course, causes harm.

Here’s where he got me, though: “Perfection is weaponized against us to try to actualize a way of being that’s quite impossible.” The attempt to reach perfection is a form of violence that we enact on ourselves and others so subtly. How many unrealistic expectations have you placed on yourself and on others?

At this point (less than 20 minutes in), it was time for me to just go home and sit down. Replay, take notes. Because, really, how could I not share this with you!

So here’s my first 20 minutes take away — goodness is about maintaining awareness of ourselves and others. It’s not just the things you do and say, though, that counts too. It’s how we try to reduce suffering for all. 

And, we all screw up. We all do stupid, insensitive things. But instead of simply reacting mindlessly, we need to respond in thoughtful ways that avoid bringing more harm and violence.

It’s about offering space for ourselves and others. I want Lama Rod Owens’ goodness for this world.

Check out the entire podcast episode of “Buddhist Strategies for Suffering Less and Improving Your Meditation” wherever you get your podcasts. I’d love to hear what specific insights resonate with you? Share your biggest takeaways in the comments!